Revisiting the LDS excommunication of Lyndon Lamborn who talked too much
It was nearly four years ago that a Boeing engineer, Lyndon Lamborn, contacted me at the East Valley Tribune to tell me the Mormon Church was excommunicating him and making it quite public — as a kind of warning to the rest of the flock that his ideas and criticism of the church were too explosive.
I especially remember my front-page Sunday morning article for the huge reaction – more than 18,000 hits on the Website story (the newspaper’s record at the time) and hundreds and hundreds of reader comments. I did a number of follow-up stories and was amazed by the public interest in the controversy about the 49-year-old life-long Mormon, who had previously devoted his time, energy and resources to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Lamborn’s intellect, predisposition for exhaustive research and grit prompted him to share his findings with his fellow Saints. Church authorities labeled that apostasy.
While excommunication itself in the church is not uncommon, Lamborn’s stake president informed Lamborn in a letter, dated Sept. 2, 2007, that because of “the nature of your excommunication and your involvement with the people of this area, an announcement will be delivered” to the priesthood quorum and Relief Society of each of eight wards in the Mesa Arizona Salt River Stake on a forthcoming Sunday. They would be told that “you have been excommunicated for apostasy,” said that letter from State President R. James Molina.
Lamborn was offended that authorities chose to make him a public exhibit, so he came to the Tribune to trump them and get it announced publicly, on his own terms, in the press. Certainly, once I called Molina for the church’s side of the issue for the article, he pondered whether to go forward with the announcements. He subsequently abandoned the plan of mass notification at the wards, but, by then, the story was out there.
I had all but forgotten that Lamborn intended to write a book about that experience. Recently a friend told me he checked out the book from the Mesa Public Library and found me mentioned several places in the book, “Standing For Something More: The Excommunication of Lyndon Lamborn.” I ordered the book (AuthorHouse, 278 pages, 2009), and emailed Lamborn that I looked forward to reading the book. He has laid out his story also online. He also speaks out on videos there and on YouTube.
“Standing for Something More” is a bold, courageous and compelling book. It chronicles the awakening of a once-earnest and devout Mormon who had never before acted on the inconsistencies and troubling aspects of the history and teachings of the 13 million worldwide church founded in 1830 by Joseph Smith Jr. in New York State. He tells in detail how he grew up in an obedient Mormon family with seven children. Lamborn went on a two-year Mormon mission to Belgium, returned to get his two university degrees, married and had three children, and took on the demanding church assignments for decades including teaching priesthood classes. He adhered to the 10 percent tithing to the church and said the church received more than $100,000 in giving by his family. He was fully part of the subculture that Mormons live in, much of it apart from non-believers.
When Lamborn read Jon Krakauer’s book, “Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith,” it triggered more personal research. A work colleague asked him about the polygamous wives of Joseph Smith, some 33 by one account. Lamborn couldn’t answer her, but what he found in his research incensed him — that the Saints were woefully uninformed about the true history of the church and that information is manipulated to keep members in the dark.
Lamborn was a bulldog in going into the darkest history of the church and raising questions. He was troubled how the church has shut its archives to researchers and how authorities purchased many forgeries of church documents lest they be seen by members and open doors of doubt. Lamborn has mounted a long list of unreconciled issues in the church, especially the Book of Mormon’s authenticity. Why did it so much resemble and parallel portions of Ethan Smith’s “A View of the Hebrews,” published just seven years before in a town not far from Joseph Smith’s home in New York. Why are mistakes in that book repeated in The Book of Mormon? He questioned the timeline of events in The Book of Mormon, which is said to recount the transplantation of a Hebrew tribe in the Americas. It talked of steel spears long before steel was developed in Europe, and there was no evidence of steel remnants from battles in America. The Book of Mormon suggested domesticated animals in the Americas, but none was found in the fossils. The Laminite people of America were said to be descendants of the Hebrews of Israel, but physiologically the American Indians did not match, and anthropologists generally believe Indian tribes were ancestors of eastern Asians. There were reports of massive four-digit battle deaths when other accounts suggested a population of two digits.
“Standing for Something More” is a title take-off of the late Mormon President and Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley’s “Standing for Something.” Lamborn said the prophet had been in the position to have reformed the Mormon church and corrected falsehoods and ambiguities. Much of the book rightly goes after all formal religions for mind control, imparting guilt, groupthink, shunning and ostracizing those who break out and the pressures on families and individuals to meet unreasonable expectations. Mormons especially work their members to a tired pulp — keeping them so occupied they aren’t disposed to probe, study and question history and teachings.
Lamborn didn’t rebound to other faiths. Many who leave Mormonism move on to conventional Christian churches, with mixed experiences. Lamborn’s evolution out of the Mormon way of life allowed him the extensive research on the methodology of faiths and the strategies most traditions use for recruitment and retention. He describes himself as a “naturalist” where “there is a natural explanation for everything; there is no supernatural anything … The naturalist eliminates a vengeful, capricious and judgmental God concept. The naturalist does away with the wrong motivations for treating other people well, such as the promised rewards in heaven or to please God.”
Lamborn opens his chapters with powerful indictments of religion, theology, mind control and the damage done by religious ideology. Here are some of those statements:
- Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. — Blaise Pascal.
– He who know only his own faith knows no faith. — Anonymous
–Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. — Frater Ravus.
–In comes ideology and out goes common sense. This is my experience of life — Doris Lessing
–Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. — Anonymous.
– When one person suffers from delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion. — Robert Pirsig
– A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. — Mark Twain.
Why revisit this story? Is it because there are two Mormons running for the 2012 Presidency perhaps and you need to paint ‘The Mormons’ in a bad way? I am 53 yrs old and I was a Mormon from 19-23 years old and it was an enriching experience. We were not ‘worked to death’, we wanted to be involved. We lived our religion 24/7 unlike the Sunday only religions. The Mormons are a good people who willingly help others. I am not a member anymore but after being a part of them for 5 years I need to defend them. Maybe Mormonism isn’t all true, is any church the ‘true church’? I believe going to church where you feel comfortable is what is most important. What worked for me back then might not work for me now but they are not goons, it is not a cult and they are the best people and have the most loving beautiful families that I have ever seen in any church.
Those who write to destroy the faith of another are the lowest of the low. They destroy and quote other listless souls in the hopes of what? wiping out faith? wiping out christianity? religion? not a chance. sharing some form of recently discovered “enlightenment”? by all means, share. but do not believe for a second, you are somehow smarter than the millions who have gone before you and continue all around you. and, do not expect your church to sit idly by while you commit yourself to destructive behavior. any church is correct in rooting out those who work against it. i seriously doubt the Mormons need Lamborn to justify themselves. Mormonism is based on some unusual accounts, but i would not say any more unusual than burning bushes, dividing oceans, immaculate conceptions, healing the sick or the Resurrection itself. In the end, people are free to understand or not and those who do not are free to leave and become “naturalists”.
Don’t fool yourself — plenty in the Old and New Testament are every bit as hokey as those in the Book of Mormon. From the animals marching into the ark two-by-two to the virgin birth of Jesus, the stories in these three books are just that — stories. Science is the only truth, and even that has its limits. Don’t even get me started on Scientology…
Love,
An evolved ape-like creature
Lawn Griffiths – always has an eye out to denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What was newsworthy here? Griffiths bought a book and contacted the author? Sadly, this non-story is more of an indictment of Mr. Griffiths as a biased “religion” reporter than a news story.
I now live in a different LDS Stake, but I was under James Molina in his stake when Lamborne was excommunicated. James Molina was a wonderful leader. His release came after the normal term of service for present day Stake Presidents. I am 75 years old and during my lifetime of service to the Church in Argentina, Mexico, Texas, Utah and Arizona I came to know Gordon B. Hinckley and Spencer W. Kimball long before they were Apostles and later Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint. These two men of great sensitivity did much to open up records and squarely face criticism from various anti-Mormon sources.
It is is pity that the writer of this latest article has apparently not bothered to become acquainted with the on-going project known as the Joseph Smith papers. These papers are planned to include eventually a relatively large number of published Volumes. Those already completed are shown regularly on BYU-TV, easily and publicly available by most cable carriers and also via Internet.
The BYU faculty of Religious Education, regularly appear with non-Mormon leaders and have drawn credit by many who do not accept some of the Mormon doctrines, but are complimenting LDS Scholars for their evident scholarship which has been said to be objective and in line with accepted standards of academic research. A current LDS apostle, Dallin H. Oaks, taught law at the University of Chicago and served later in Utah on the State Supreme Court has publicly spoken in a number of academic venues, pointing out the inconsistencies in attacks on religion generally and on the LDS Church specifically as a violation of constitutional guarantees of religious freedom. His speeches and writings are easily available, again on BYU TV and on the Internet.
Gordon B. Hinckley, more than any other LDS President has supported both the open BYU Papers project and the BYU religious faculty in their seminars and participation with non-LDS academics. President Hinckley’s successor, Thomas S. Monson has pledged publicly to continue with the same support previously given by Gordon B. Hinckley.
Why are columnists who write for religion sections so decidedly anti-religion? Lawn, you don’t even try to disguise your bias when you write that Mr. “Lamborn opens his chapters with wonderfully powerful indictments of religion, theology, mind control and the damage done by religious ideology.” You seem so excited to have been able to “revisit” this four-year old story.
I disagree with these comments that this article is irrelevant. This is a follow up to a previous article the Mr Griffith has written.
I spent 32 years as a mormon and can relate to what Lamborn went through. I was a counselor in the bishopric for many years and my wife was RS president. Once the bishop heard that we were asking questions about the changing church history, they started church court proceedings to discuss our “Standing in the church”. Why? Because we were asking questions? I found out later from a friend that they feared that we would lead others away with what we were finding out about the true history of the church.
I also believe that this is the kind of stuff that should come out in an election. Once you see what the mormons are really like to those that do not obey, how can you honestly want a president that is a mormon. Really. If you doubt me, you should sing the children’s song ‘Follow the Prophet’ or review the mormon temple ceremony on line (The temple ceremony is about loyalty and obedience to the church. Obey the church, sacrifice all you have for the church, dont speak evil of the leaders even if they are wrong, and give all of your time/talents/everything you own to the church.)
A good mormon will always follow the prophet even if they are president of the United States.
Wow, are the Mormons ever ticked at Lawn Griffiths’s article. Too darn bad. It’s no secret that Joseph Smith Jr. was no saint and was the furthest thing from it. So sad that so many don’t investigate the Mormon teachings or the teachings of any religion, going as far back as to when that religion was founded, instead of becoming blind, indoctrinated sheep. Salamander letters? Okay, sure, and I’ve got some ocean-front property in Arizona I want to sell you.
It was not Lawn Griffiths intent to make it appear as though the Mormons are bad people. So sad that so many of you Mormons got your nose out of joint because someone like Lyndon Lamborn, a man with courage and convictions, dared to research and question the teachings of the Mormon church. If Smith and his followers back in the day were so honest and there is nothing at all to hide about how your church was founded, then just why did your church excommunicate Lamborn? Ahhh, I see, your love for your fellow man only applies so long as your fellow Mormons follow blindly. Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil, right?
I know many Mormons who are good people, just like I know many other people who follow various religions and beliefs. It’s not the church that makes the person good, it’s what’s inside that person and the way the choose to live their lives that makes them a good person.
Barbara, Romney will lose not because he is a Mormon, but because he is a two-faced politician. Know who was behind socialized medicine in Mass.? Yep, it was Romney. Know who badmouthed our state because of SB1070? Yep, it was Romney. He isn’t a part of the solution but a very big part of the problem with our government today. Romney is a sleazeball and that has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with the selling of his own soul to the devil to gain entry through the pearly gates of the kingdom known as the White House.
Willaim, a few years back, Lawn Griffiths wrote a very good article about The Living Word Bible Church, located in northeast Mesa. Thanks to that article and some very good investigative work by many of the article’s readers, much was exposed about the family that owns and operates that money worship center. Seems the church of money wasn’t and still isn’t owned by the churchgoers, but owned and tightly controlled by the greedy family who continue to suck the live out of the wallets of the people who attend their money worship services. I guess Lawn Griffiths should be lambasted for that article, too, according to your beliefs. If anything, it can be said that Lawn Griffiths does not discriminate when it comes to the topics of his articles. I guess that just blew your conspiracy theory against the Mormons, right out of the port side torpedo tube, eh?
All religion is a scam.
All religious belief is superstitious nonsense.
These FACTS are not insults to any religion – they are FACTS.
Grow up and deal with it.
Lawn Griffiths — Never miss an opportunity to bash the LDS church, even if it means rehashing an old story – 4 years old. Lawn, did they pay you to rewrite an old story? Plus, if you are a reporter, where is the objectivity? Where is the airing of both sides to a story? What a hack.
Travis, the Mormon Church was asked to respond back when they attempted to make a spectacle of excommunicating Lyndon. All your precious church did was to make an jackass out of themselves. Lawn’s article based on a review of the book that was written by Lyndon, or did you miss that? Duh!
If we were to follow only the beliefs of you MWH, Mormons Who Hate, then we would be nothing more than sheeple like yourselves who never question anything, and that’s just plain foolish and stupid.
“The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Studying history is necessary to avoid repeating past mistakes. This
saying comes from the writings of George Santayana, a Spanish-born
American author of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.”
This is the reason why situations/stories need to be repeated; they provide balance for current events.
Why do we remember our dead on November 11th every single year?
Why are there TV programs that document historical events?
Why would a church ‘punish’ a good man for sharing his knowledge with other members? Does this have anything to do with a Mormon Presidential candidate? Lamborn and thousands of others know exactly what would happen to Romney if he should go against the Mormon grain. We need to understand how much coercion he would be under to obey his temple covenants spoken of in the article.
Romney has promised ALL he possesses and may possess to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for the building up of the Kingdom of God (Mormonism) and for the establishment of Zion. Do other Christians really want the Mormon Church governing them through their lackey, Romney? Yes this is a good time to revisit what happens to those who don’t toe the line.
Rex, you pointed out and I quote you, “A current LDS apostle, Dallin H. Oaks, taught law at the University of Chicago and served later in Utah on the State Supreme Court has publicly spoken in a number of academic venues, pointing out the inconsistencies in attacks on religion generally and on the LDS Church specifically as a violation of constitutional guarantees of religious freedom.”. Okay, so if I understand you correctly, it’s okay for your church and its members to have constitutional guarantees of religous freedom, but Lawn and Lyndon shouldn’t be protected by the Consitution?
Rex, you hypocrite, let me post the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, so you can read it, learn it, KNOW IT.
“The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law “respecting an establishment of religion”, impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.”
Rex, hope you now see how the same law that protects your church, also protects Lyndon’s and Lawn’s CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to FREEDOM OF SPEECH and FREEDOM OF THE PRESS.
My initial impression of Lawn has been reinforced time and again over the years. Yes he does have an agenda. Lawn is all about helping people. He helps by dispelling myth, promoting tolerance, and helps us understand the context of faith in the lives of humans. What Lawn did not mention is how these articles and my book have helped hundreds. I have the e-mails and fb messages to prove it. While it is true that the articles (and my book) may not be of much use to some, Lawn is to be applauded for his efforts to reach out and help people. The venom toward Lawn is therefore misguided and inappropriate, in my opinion.
The comment about the article aimed at destruction of faith reveals a certain close-mindedness. The comment presupposes too much. First of all, some institutions should be destroyed, even those with wonderfully kind and loving members. Many wonderful people subscribed to the Nazi party in the 30’s and 40’s, and more recently, we had Apartheid in South Africa. The people were mostly wonderful, however, some of the ideas which brought them together were not. I think we would agree that the world is a better place without these institutions. Would the world be a better place without Mormonism? Without Christianity? Without Islam? Without any religion whatsoever? This are complex questions, it would be so interesting to have another Earth devoid of religion to compare with our world today. A strong case can be made that the answer is YES to all these questions (but ultimately we cannot know for sure). Yet there are hundreds of millions of the kindest and most charitable people on earth who ascribe to these faiths, including James Molina for example. Would they be just as kind and charitable and loving without their faith? Yes, I think they would. It is possible that the world would be a kinder, gentler, more life-enhancing place without any religion whatsoever. A tolerant viewpoint has to consider this very real possibility.
The other assumption is that these articles or my book could damage or destroy Mormonism or religion in general. This is a misconception. Such articles only reinforce the groupthink and give the illusion of ‘persecution’, which steels the resolve of the faithful. The confirmation bias is strong in humans. The article simply helps get the word out that there is life beyond Mormonism and will likely be helpful to some people. It just won’t be of much use to those who think they already belong to the ‘only true religion’, or those who have bought into the lie that the best in humans is brought out by delusion. Thanks Lawn.
My, my!! But the Emperor does get touchy when someone points out he’s wearing no clothes.
So, someone decided to be an Athiest, and the Church excommunicated him. Excommunication means that fellowship (membership) in the Church is withdrawn. That seems to be what he wanted anyway.
Why is this important? One person made his choice, and the church let him go. OK, so what?
As for his other points, it is true that there are several different sources from 150 years ago. They either support or attack Joseph Smith. the same thing is true of those who lived at the time of Peter and Paul. Jesus and Mary also had supporters and detractors. So did Mohammud and Moses. Not everyone accepts any prophet. I can accept that.
Mr. Lamborn apparently cannot. Here are two he might appreciate.
Using Bible Chronology, Noah died a half dozen years after Abraham did. That was more than 7 generations.
Using ‘standard’ Book of Mormon chronology, in the time between Nephi and Jacob, to Mosiah, the average age of the keepers was around 40 years. Generational age gaps usually work out to 20 to 30 years.
I don’t have a problem with that. Hebrew usage has the same word for child and grandchild.
And his central point that he doesn’t accept ANY miraculous occurrences. Then he does not accept the existence of any god. He even says so. So, while I find that sad, I do allow him to go his own way. I wish him well, but I find that life is happier for me in the ‘Mormon Church’ than outside of it. Helping people and loving people makes my life better. It’s as Jesus taught. It is Charity (love of others) that is the true basis of judgement. Read Matthew 25. There will be only one important question asked at the final judgement.
I have to agree that this article is not one of any real importance. So one more person has written an attack. Not just of my church, but of all churches, and this columnist thinks that is important for a ‘religious’ section of a newspaper?
Sir, you have the wrong job.
My family hails from a long line of mormons, my great great great grandfather had 8 wives thats when I stopped my family tree in the seventh grade. My father a great man stopped the long line of mormonism in our family thank the lord! he did so when my grandfather a life long member of the church asked for thier help to move to carson city nevada when he was to poor to do so. They told him no. what a kind and loving church! He later became head of the labor commision under paul laxalt the governor of nevada! The mormon church is a cult I believe only “helping” those that “help” the church. Big mistake and not a christian outlook by any means! My grandfather stayed a mormon member even after they turned thier back on him and his family but my father only a boy at the time never forgot! William hutchings my great great great grandfather was also involved in the mountain meadow massacre, something im not proud of and nithier is the lds church but that is examples of thier loving caring cult who buries thier past and has a ignorant congregation.
Wow, us Mormon’s are nasty people.We condem Mr Lamborn for not only not believing what we do,but having the nerve to say why! Where is that christian love we so often talk about?
I still have my discussions from my mission in 1968 that include teaching people that they are not members of Gods Church,unless the are LDS…I was repeatily taught at Zone conferences that there were two churches…the church of God(MORMON)and the church of the Devil (all others)..
I have not met Mr Lamborn yet(I will next week)but I have read many of his writtings. I am a 45 year Mormon..2 Bishoprics, many years of Gospel Doctrine Instructor,Temple Prep classes,etc..Finally 2 yrs as a Bishop,and I have to say…I have serious questions and concerns,that have not and will not be answered..
Intelligence is next to Godliness..We should remember that and question everything.Don’t just blindly follow..
Be Christian in your treatment of your fellow man,after all they are our Brothers and Sisters….
Stating hard, cold facts here: Utah at or very near the top of the nation in elective surgeries, anti-depressant use, bankruptcies, suicides, captital fraud, searches on the internet for pornography, oppressive spirit exists per most visitors…etc. This is not news but it is appalling how Utahs ignore this. So what is so different about Utah than everywhere else in the nation??? Well, only one conclusion: Mormonism!!! This is what I call “The Utah Mentality” borne from momonism. Those in authority everywhere in the state, regardless if it is religious or secular, exercise “Unrighteous Dominion”. The mentality runs rampant in Utah. I am presently in a lawsuit with my employer over this attitude. “Don’t bother me with the facts, my mind is made up!” and “Talk to the hand!” is the status quo among those in authority in any setting throughout Utah. Utahns are professionals at ignoring facts. This mentality is, quite literally….killing people….That’s why this issue is so important. Keep up the good work Mr. Lamborn!
Who cares about Lamborne and his situation. We all know darn well that anyone who walks around within whatever organization they belong to “questioning” their beliefs, challenging their methods and otherwise causing the loss of order in the ranks will be shown the door (whether you are right or wrong).
Doesnt matter if it is a church, employment or some club. You rock the boat and dont straighten up after being told to do so….you are gone.
Lamborne and the author both need to get over it and move on……..losers.
I am LDS and have had my reservations about things over the years, but I’m not about to make the whole thing personal, write books and get all angry about it. If I really cant deal with it anymore then I’ll leave- end of story.
You two need to get a life.
Why the vitriol people? Why so defensive? It is quite obvious that those of you attacking Mr Lamborn have not read his book. He did a fantastic job of chronicling his journey out of the Mormon Faith. Stay ignorant if that works for you.
It is ridiculous to reprint and bring up this story again four years later.
It is a NON story.
Every year many Mormons decide to leave that church for whatever reason. Many of them leave for the same reasons as Mr. Lamborn. However, most people use some common sense and just resign. Mr. Lamborn knew he had the right to just simply resign and be done with the matter. Mr. Lamborn chose to push things further for the notoriety. He is nothing special. But I think that we can defiantly say, ATTENTION WHORE!
Attention4nothing, what makes you so right and Mr. Lamborn so wrong? Where’s that Mormon show of love for your fellow man? Another hypocrite shows their ugly self. So sad.
The one thing that you MWH, Mormons Who Hate, seem to lack, is the ability to use a very special gift that God gave to you. That gift is called a BRAIN. If you were using yours, you might be able to think, reason, rationally discuss religion, and most of all, QUESTION. That’s exactly what Mr. Lamborn is doing with his brain. You see, education is never ending. The only way to learn is by keeping an open mind, to explore, seek knowledge, and to question that which we either do not know about, or to question what we have been taught but the story doesn’t sound right or the facts may be fiction. Anyone like you, who takes things as though they are written in stone, are nothing more than sheep being led to slaughter.
As for sheep, want a good example of this? Just read “Get Over It’s” comments. There’s a person who is afraid to be true to himself, his own man so to speak. Rather than dig deeper into what he has doubts about concerning his religion, he just goes along to get along. He’s the very same type of person who joined Hitler’s Nazi Party. Many knew that Hitler’s beliefs were wrong, yet rather than to question, many like “Get Over It” went along to get along. Their lack of courage to do what they knew in their hearts was right, led to the slaughter of millions of innocent people. How sad, how truly, truly sad that there are still people like this who lack the courage to be true to themselves.
I spent two years with my local LDS ward. LDS folks are generally sincere and were generally very inspiring to be around in terms of ‘doing good’.
However had I known then what I know now, then I wouldn’t have spent two hours in the LDS ward investigating let alone two years. I would never have gone in the first place.
I was being ‘set up’ from the very beginning. It’s known as ‘Friendshipping’. All the flattering comments made to me and purported friendships were for the purpose of recruitment only. Once I started to ask the deeper questions then the Sinister side of it all started to creep out.
‘Kicking against the Pricks’ is one typical phrase a seasoned LDS recruit will make and why? Because I dared to show the recently baptised recruits (especially the darker skinned brothers) passages from the Book of Mormon which teach skin colour is related to righteousness and the teachings of LDS prophets about ‘Less Valiancy’ in the Pre Existence and it’s relationship to your skin colour or other circumstance at birth including wealth.
I found that many of the members didn’t know the real doctrines of the church and those who did know would keep ‘quite’.
When I asked about Joseph Smiths Face in a hat and purporting to read from a garden stone, members would say that it’s antimormon lies! Yet it’s the truth, so what does that tell you about how the church leaders and educational system teaches them?
For two years Joseph Smith was being potrayed as a loving husband to wife Emma. The reality of this man’s behaviour was far from this. What I discovered about this man churned my stomach.
The LDS so called church will tell you as little as possible for as long as possible. All it wants is your money, blind obedience and acceptance of what they teach you (even if its false anyway and alot has been and still is) and your entire life to recruit for them.
Very interesting to see so many people hostile over Lyndon’s decision to quit Mormonism. I resigned my membership, which was forced upon me at age 8, but in retrospect, it would have been better to have been “exed” like Lyndon. He showed just how courageous he was to stand up for what he believes, and not be afraid of the wrath of “LDS Inc.” down in Salt Lake City.
“LDS Inc.” does not like it when people publicly leave Mormonism. It would much prefer people quietly leave, but why? If it is true and there is nothing to question, then they should welcome open debate about its tenets and with those who depart.
It’s high time the media wrote more often about the cultish behaviour of Mormonism, which tries to keep its membership ignorant, through intimidation of those who dare to ask questions and discover the truth about it.
This is how it goes these days–it’s so easy to study oneself right out of the church. At the very time that Lamborn was studying the church in detail, I was doing likewise, with the same result. So many others are doing it, too, so much so that the LDS church is bleeding members in the developed world. LDS missions and stakes and wards are consolidating or disappearing all together. The LDS church is only gaining members among the backward and/or Internet-bereft peoples of the world, trading missions in places like Germany for missions in places like Lubumbashi, DR Congo. It’s not a pretty time to be Mormon.
@Dare To Question? Absolutely,
I am NOT a Mormon as you seem to assume from your post.
I am just pointing out that Mr. Lamborn is not a victim of the Mormon Church. This is a NON story. MANY people leave the Mormon Church without dramatic fanfare. Many for the same reasons as Mr. Lamborn. In my opinion it makes the Mormon Church seem as if they have some legitimacy to be so public about a silly matter.
I too studied my way out of belief in Mormonism around the same time Lyndon Lamborn was doing the same. I have enjoyed reading about and listening to his story. As more and more individuals question religion in general I believe the world will move toward a more compassionate global community… it really must happen for the preservation of the human species. Globally and generally humans have been making progress in considering reason and dropping delusions of the past, lets hope that continues. Above all else, in our own homes… don’t pretend to know something that you do not know — especially when it comes to teaching our children about life and the origins of humans.
Lyndon, thanks for the book and your willingness to share your story with the world.
I find it illustrative of what passes for ‘Mormon thinking’ that Lyndon is claimed by some Mormons to be a seeker of media attention.
Let’s follow the sequence of events:
1. Lyndon finds discrepancies in Mormon history and studies more broadly.
2. Church leaders get wind of that and tell him to ‘cease and desist’ and not speak of his findings, in spite that the faith claims to be a lover of truth and virtue.
3. He is summonsed to a Church Court & stripped of his membership.
4. His former leaders advise they will publicise his fall from grace widely (in an attempt to calm the troops (or settle the sheep)). This historically in Mormonism is a process that is worded to imply some spiritual or moral deficiency on the part of the exed party. It is no ‘respectful parting of the ways’, rather a naming and shaming of a black sheep. (Mormonism very very orthodox with regard to employing this tried and proven tactic).
5. Lyndon, quite reasonably, felt that was inappropriate and an example of the very process Mormonism uses to maintain its control over its flock, through maximising their ignorance and fear.
6. Lyndon THEN goes to the media, to achieve some balance in the dissemination of word of his departure from Mormonism.
Lyndon the Media Tart? I hardly think so.
Lyndon – an ex Mormon who by then had developed an understanding of how his former faith wields (and abuses) power, and has for hundreds of years mollified its followers into passivity, and he countered them with the power of light; of exposure in a forum where they had no control.
Having discovered the faith where he was raised to believe truth, transparency and virtue resided, was actually involved in fraud and deception on a massive scale, should Lyndon just resign and slide away, indifferent that those Mormon activities were impacting hundreds of thousands of innocent people? That surely would be the pathway of the selfish coward, indifferent to the cause of truth.
Instead, he had the balls to speak truth to power, and the savvy to do so in a manner that held them publicly accountable, and for that I applaud him.
I, for one, welcome his book and Lyndon’s account of his journey of discovery.
Attention4nothing, I take it that reading comprehension is not one of your strong points. Here’s a quote from this article. Perhaps when you read it again, you’ll comprehend why Mr. Lamborn handle his leaving the church the way that he did. I applaud Mr. Lamborn for having the courage to stand up to Mr. Molina, instead of allowing him to feed Mr. Lamborn to the flock. Mr. Molina’s handling of Mr. Lamborn’s excommunication was vindictive and extremely meanspirited, not a all in keeping with a positive Christian spirit. Again I say, REREAD the quote below and then get a reality check. On the way out, don’t let the door hit you on your big, fat, ego.
“While excommunication itself in the church is not uncommon, Lamborn’s stake president informed Lamborn in a letter, dated Sept. 2, 2007, that because of “the nature of your excommunication and your involvement with the people of this area, an announcement will be delivered” to the priesthood quorum and Relief Society of each of eight wards in the Mesa Arizona Salt River Stake on a forthcoming Sunday. They would be told that “you have been excommunicated for apostasy,” said that letter from State President R. James Molina.”
Having a family member that has converted to the Mormon faith, I would add that many inconsistencies lie within their movement. To all what is being spoken and written about the current state of the LDS church -it is necessary to go back to its beginning. I read a book titled “The Veil” which told of a wagon train going west, across the country that was attacked by the founding members of the mormon church. I recommend reading it so you will learn about the origin of this cult.
Wow. I think someone hit a nerve here but then I guess that’s nothing new when it comes to the LDS response to disaffected, apostate or ex-Mormons. It appears that active ultra-orthodox LDS are the only people who can speak openly about their experiences related to Mormonism. Freedom of expression and the 11th Article of Faith is only for those who say what the faithful want said I guess.
Like it not though ex-Mormons and active Mormons alike are part of the Mormon community and culture— and everyone in between as well. They all have a Mormon experience and the right to share it. You may not agree with Lyndon Lamborn or like his story but it’s no less valuable than the one that 50,000 missionaries share door to door to those seen as less than enlightened.
Not everyone who disagree with us is bad because of it.
Here are some statements by informed and intelligent Latter-day Saints:
http://mormonscholarstestify.org/
Lawn Griffiths’s article needs some balance, I think.
I would recommend reading Lyndon’s book “Standing for Something More” and then judge for your self what his motives are. I downloaded it on my Kindle App for $2.95 from Amazon. I will say reading it on my iPhone was a bit of a challenge but doable. I really enjoyed reading his book to understand more about his story and why he decided to write the book. Thank you Mr. Lamborn for sharing your story it helped me to see things from a different view.
My first experience with Mormon hospitality was less than favorable. It was around 10:30 PM on a Saturday night just outside of Heber, UT. I was in the Air Force and on the way to my new duty station in Hawaii with my wife and three children. We were heading down a mountainside and it was -10 degrees outside when our car quit. I had the presence of mind to keep it in gear and coast to the bottom as we still had DC generators in those days. Just as we go to the bottom of the mountain, there was a service station and I coasted into their service area. I went inside and asked the two station attendants for help. Their response was, “Buddy, it is Saturday night and we have to get ready for church tomorrow morning.” The following morning after much pleading, I finally got someone to look at my car. I paid dearly for it as we had less than 48 hours to reach the port and turn in our car for shipment. Yes, that was a pleasant experience with people who demonstrate such love towards their fellow man.
I read the story above also about the gentleman who was turned down by the church when he needed assistance in moving to Nevada. Not long after moving to Mesa, we had a young man doing some service work and somehow we got onto a discussion about the church. He mentioned that he had lived in Mesa his entire life and when he was growing up, his family was dirt poor. He said that there were many times when his family was in dire need but the church members never provide help.
Simply put there are many things that the average LDS (Mormon) member knows nothing about. The members should know about these things. A few examples:
The Book of Abraham facsimiles have been translated by Egyptologists and they have been determined to be common Egyptian funeral documents that have nothing to do with Abraham.
The Book of Mormon is loaded with anachronisms. It mentioned many things that did not exist in the Americas when the BOM took place – like horses, elephants, wheat, barley, steel, silk, etc.
The temple endowment ceremony comes almost entirely from Masonry. The explanation that Masonry originally came from Solomon’s temple is completely erroneous.
Just google these things to start to find out the full story.
@Attention4Nothing
Interesting that you bring up the ‘attention whore’ aspect. I have been accused of much worse, trust me. The real story is quite the opposite. When James Molina and I finally agreed it would be best that I no longer be a church member, I simply asked about a simple and quiet way to have that done. I made it clear that I did not want to embarrass my wife, son, or have my mother hurt by finding out – it would disappoint her greatly. James said he would send me some paperwork that would be self-explanatory, I said great, we hugged, and I left the office. Then I got a summons to a disciplinary council – I was expecting a simple form to sign or something. The escalation had begun. The only reason that an article ever hit the paper was Molina’s promise to publicly announce my ex-communication in every ward in the stake. I believe my ‘exit interview’ at my disciplinary council, which may be heard on YouTube (search Lyndon Lamborn excommunication – 3 parts) made Molina quite angry, the only way to punish me was to go public – do the one thing I dreaded. And THAT is the real story. Sorry to burst your bubble.
As for this being a non-story, I thought the same thing. I thought it did not rate front page coverage… right up until the time that my first article broke ALL records for comments. It turns out that the public decides what is a story and what is not, not you. There goes bubble #2.
And yes, I WAS a victim of the church and their inability to deal with the member who has studied his way out. A victim of out-dated policies, like ex-communication, disciplinary councils, and public denouncement of heresy. Oh wow, bubble #3.
And for more balance, check out exmormonscholarstestify.com.
So we are encouraged to be critical open thinkers in everything in life except our Mormon faith. Mormonism is top down and very controlling of it’s history. It needs to re-establish it’s historical basis. The world has grown up, it is vastly more aware of human and natural history than barely educated 19 century folks. The Mormon church must take the painful steps to catch up or be doomed to irrelevancy.
I have many Mormon friends, but I hate it when they act as though only true-believing Mormons have the right to talk about the church. There are numerous news outlets that publish only Mormon-friendly fair.
This man’s experience is as valid as any true believing Mormon, and he deserves to be heard. It’s funny how the Mormons on the forum are quick to label him “Anti” but they don’t come to terms with the facts about Joseph Smith’s polygamy.
For those of you who are angry mormon commenters, please know that it may be that the author of this article may have had a negative and biased agenda, that does not, however, change the facts that Lyndon brought up after his research. Ask yourself this vital question, with as much of an open mind: If the church is true, why would it be afraid of the truth. If it’s true then the truth of the historical facts should only back up what you already know, right? The problem is it doesn’t. Take it from a member who knows the truth and most of it doesn’t match what you were taught in Sunday School. Here are just a few of the major discrepancies: 1. Joseph Smith WROTE the Book of Abraham yet the church still states that he TRANSLATED it, even though modern egyptologists have consistently shown that not to be true. 2. Joseph was married to at least eight women who were already married to other men whom they continued to be married to and live with until the day they died. 3. The real reason Joseph was killed was because he ordered a printing press to be burned(a serious crime) and not because people were fighting against “the church of god”. 4. The first vision was told by Joseph in many wildly differing ways including differences in who he saw in the vision, what they said to him and the year in which it occurred. 5. The Book of Mormon, while it may be inspiring to you, was man-made. See Grant Palmer’s excellent book “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins”.
Until the church starts teaching these events and others in the way they truly occurred, we will all be the poorer for it. As Christ simply put it “The truth shall set you free”. As a church that purports to be Christ’s only true and living church, we should expect nothing less than this.
For members of the Mormon faith, loyalty and the welfare of the church are far more important than doctrinal or historical accuracies. Instead, plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult, and rightly so.
The practice of “Lying for the lord” is part of Mormonism’s larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers in my opinion would be drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators.
Most members are only familiar with the church’s cherry picked and heavily censured versions of events.
I have no doubt that the LDS church is seeing itself as going forth, “boldly, nobly, and independent”, however, it is more accurately described as going forth “delusory, deceptively and disingenuously”…
I personally applaud Lyndon for the bravery and compassion he has exhibited. If you don’t think he feels compassion and warm-heartedness about his experiences then please watch the youtube videos of his excommunication proceedings. He has nothing but love for the men on the council that view him as some sort of cancer that deserves to be purged.
Leaving the church is not an easy task, especially for a life long member whose entire family is LDS. I am facing the same realizations that Lyndon did a few years back and I hope I can find the strength to leave it behind with as much love and grace as he did.
There is simply no reconciling the problems with the Church’s history and the historicity of the BOM. B. H. Roberts never got the answers he was looking for either and he took his feelings to the grave. Thankfully, his manuscript of Studies of the BOM was finally published and the world was able to see what he learned through his first-hand research.
I wish Lyndon the best and am thankful for his strength.
Whatever it is you think still Mr. Lamborn is right. I have been an LDS member for 35 years and outside of USA nobody knows about Helen Mar Kimball (14 year old who married Joseph Smith) or that Joseph Smith had 34 wives and Brigham Young had 55 wives. That it was found that the book of Abraham was basically made up by Joseph Smith and not translated as he claimed it first. These are truths and is he being ant-ireligion for telling the truth? Is he supposed to lie in order to be not anti religion?
If mormons are good and want to help is great and that is true. but if we want to say that our church is the ONLY true church why is it that people find truths about our church and they are excommunicated?
Part from this principle: who does not like to hear the truth? JesusChrist or Satan?
and if leaders of the church do not talk about the book of Abraham not being a correct translation of the papyrus as Joseph Smith said it was is that saying the truth or hiding the truth?
If our leaders are hiding the truth who are they serving?
Jesus or Satan?
ANd if you defend someone who is hiding the truth who are you following Jesus or Satan?
Lawn,
… Thanks for shining the light into a very dark area.
Lamborn was used by God to give thoughts to other folks
that was caught in the dark.
…I don’t often read about other peoples searches, but
I’ll read His.
…Thanks for your efforts.
..Karl Krahn
Here are some statements by informed and intelligent former Latter-day Saints:
http://EXmormonscholarstestify.org/
Daniel Peterson�s apologist perspective needs some balance, I think.
(BTW, Daniel, please explain here on the forum why your mormon scholars’ testimonies are valid and the former mormon scholars’ testimonies are invalid.)
Expounding on my previous post: THE problem is that this “Utah Mentality” borne from mormonism is something that permeates Utah and one does not have to be mormon to have it. Outside of Utah, most of those in authority do NOT abuse their authority, whether religious OR secular. But inside Utah most of those in authority, in ANY capacity……DO…..abuse the…HECK…out of their authority. If this were only a religious issue, I wouldn’t give a “darn”. It is not only not a “NON” issue….It is THE issue for anyone living in “Zion”.
Ron said,
I too studied my way out of the Mormon church after 47 years of very active involvement. But my experience has brought me closer to God,not the opposite as it seems Lambournes did. I can see his animosity towards the church but if he did not believe what they were preaching then who cares. When we have invested a large portion of our lives to an organization and realize it is not what it purports to be we feel betrayed and angry. I cannot say that I did not benefit from being in the church. Many Mormon practices are positive and enriching, but when it comes to questions of deeper theology, and some of the claims regarding being the restored complete gospel of Jesus Christ the Church falls flat. Have a Mormon explain how the first God came to be? If they are scientifically minded have them explain how God (An exalted human) initiated the Big Bang of creation.
When you look deep into Mormon history, and doctrine it just does not hold water. I returned to Christian roots and found that the great apostacy as proclaimed by the Mormons never occurred. If you study deeply the early Christian Church you basically find Catholicism. My relationship with the true God of heaven has been greatly enhanced by deeply studying Christianity and it has led me home to the Catholic faith.
Happy Journey,
Just finished your book Mr. Lamborn. Loved it! Great stuff. Thank you SO much.
Lyndon,
I’d like to get to know you better. From the description I read, I think I know you pretty well already. You do fit the classical mold of a truth seeker. Perhaps others of us who have sailed your course but not jumped ship could have helped you.
I expect I am aware of all of the inconsistencies and even cover ups you have found. I have found them, too, as have others, many others. But the saying of Joseph Smith, Jr. which I most treasure is, in effect, that absolute truth is independent of the sphere [subject] it addresses. There is not one scientific truth, one historical truth, one religious truth, one social truth, one economic truth, and certainly not one political truth. There is one and only one truth and we all ought to search for it. Where truth in one sphere appears to conflict with truth in another, one or the other or both are not truth. And to knowing the truth does make us free.
I recall my great uncle pronounce that the fossels in eastern Utah were all a hoax of the devil. He could not absorb that truth. He was Joseph Fielding Smith. And having studied geology and evolution at Brigham Young University, I know Uncle Smith had more truth to absorb.
Lyndon, I wish you and your family well on your continuing search for the truth. I hope you find it in rich abundance. For those of your former associates, i.e. Latter-day Saints, who have stopped searching for truth, I suspect we both have only pitty.
I see you as having made one mistake. Where so many of our fellows have stopped searching for truth, exposing them to conflict is unsettling, deeply unsettling. Therefore we have to keep the conflicts we observe to ourselves, speaking softly, knowing that eventually “all things will be revealed” to everyone. Just ask William Richardson [commenter above] about how softly I speak of the conflicts I observe. Bill knows we quite well.
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